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User talk:Steve and Jock/Oldtalk1
Title of doubly-titled insulin Steve. Does it trouble you that the Vetsulin piece is titled Vetsulin and then refers to Caninsulin throughout? It does me, but I don't know the proper "fix." I do see that you have Caninsulin as a topic and that it redirects to Vetsulin, and that is good. Venita 08:35, 8 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Good point, Venita. I've switched it to have the article's title be Caninsulin and the redirect come from Vetsulin. Fixed. -- Steve and Jock 07:43, 9 Nov 2005 (UTC) Not logging in Sorry, Steve! I forgot to log in when doing the syringe/meter stuff. Held my beath while adding links as I'm doing so much straight HTML for another project, I want to surround everything in "<>"! Kathy :no probs, Kathy -- I forget sometimes on the Wikipedia too. That's why my penance is to have to remind others now :) ::I also posted a "tip" to the main page on how to sign your messages with an easy link to your own page. Add four "~" tildes like this: Steve and Jock 07:43, 9 Nov 2005 (UTC) Removing messages I can see what you're saying about leaving a comment about how you resolved the message, and I can see that might be a good thing if there was some color or other visual distinction (other than tabbing) between "resolved" and "unresolved" messages. I also might be able to handle it if the messages were placed in sequential order from most recent to oldest, but they are not. I'm sorry, I like to clean out my "to do" box. I don't want to have to hit that scroll down key forever in six months. An I missing some trick to move the old resolved stuff out of my way? Venita 15:14, 9 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Well it's always up to you -- your talk page is your own and if you want to delete messages you can. I just want to encourage people to keep stuff public -- it makes the discourse more civil and keeps it around for future reference. Here are the tricks I use, though: * You can make a subpage like User Talk:Venita/Oldtalk and move old stuff there when the page gets too long for your taste. If it happens a lot you can make Oldtalk1, Oldtalk2, etc. * I use the scrollbar or the mouse scroll-wheel, both much faster than the scroll-down button * When you have "resolved" a message you could draw a horizontal line under it (see the last button above) and/or perhaps highlight and italicize it or something. --Steve and Jock 15:56, 9 Nov 2005 (UTC) Recordkeeping Uploads Hi Steve, I did a page on Record Keeping per Venita's request...I emailed you with some forms to upload..wasn't sure how to do it..is this your correct email address steveandjock@petabit.com? this is so exciting! I can't wait to browse everyone's work! Site Logo I see that Wikicities is having a logo contest at http://www.wikicities.com/wiki/Logo_contest. Pretty exciting stuff there. Perhaps after we get a few more registered users, we can have a similar "design a logo" contest, if we've got people with those kinds of skills. Or maybe we could approach the users who designed for the WC logo contest to design something for us and our users could vote on them. Or both!Venita 12:40, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC) Guest book Steve. Would it be possible to open a guest book without having people go through the task of learning how to register and edit? Any kind of quick fill-in form that could be designed to automatically post info to a page for reading? I'm thinking a form that would ask for their name; their pet's name and whether their pet is a cat or dog; contact info if they care to leave it; comments about their reaction to the site; whether they have suggestions for additional content; and whether they are interested in contributing to the site but need more guidance. :Great idea, though I don't think the software will support forms. I can make it perhaps nearly as good though, let me try and see what you think. -steve :Ok here it is, and it's on the main page too. What do you think? --Steve and Jock 15:44, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::: I dumbed it down for the non-wiki types. Even though a guest may never contribute, s/he would have to know wiki editing basics to sign this guestbook. So I tried to walk the completely uninitiated through it. Venita 21:18, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::::Great work, Venita! I see we have a new guest already! --Steve and Jock 22:02, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) :::::LOL. No Steve, I added Anonymous Catlover so that there would be enough headings to create a table of contents. Was the info that convincing? I'll take it out once someone else signs the book and thus adds another heading. Have a nice weekend! Venita 22:11, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::::::You had me fooled! Note that the system will be down in a few hours for upgrades. Let's hope some of the more annoying bugs go away. Meantime I'm thinking about neuropathy. --Steve and Jock 22:15, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) Community Portal It's not intuitive to me that the page "Community Portal" is where I go to find info on naming conventions and other very important content and technical stuff. I've seen it before, but when I was looking for "the rules" last night, I couldn't find them. I will do this if you think I won't screw it up and leave the wrong stuff forever behind. But I was hoping we could maybe have a page titled perhaps "Rules for working this wiki" that redirects to the community portal page? (But I know I don't want to set it up as an article page. A "special page" maybe?) And then maybe put a link at the top of the main page, directly under the "Begin here" banner with that page link that will take people to the community portal? I suspect the community portal is a system-generated and -titled page. What exactly is the scope of the content on the community portal? Venita 13:53, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) :We can call the "Rules" page anything we wish, and link it from anywhere. I used "Community Portal" because it's new, and that's the page where we post bulletin board messages for the editing community. Ideally "Rules and Conventions" would be a page in the Help namespace, and linked to from Community Portal and anywhere else we like. --Steve :I've done this now. see . --Steve and Jock Great job You are doing an absolutely incredible job with populating this site. I feel like a marketing major, out on the FDMB trying to promote it, rather than in here writing articles. Let me know if there's something specific you need me to do. Your energy and knowledge levels are awesome. Venita 15:19, 12 Nov 2005 (UTC) Guestbook Hi Steve, Just a heads up that when Cheri added her name to the guestbook, she inadvertently deleted yours >.< --Sheree and Nemesis 03:22, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC) Uploading Curves Steve. Beautiful work on the curve article. How does one upload a curve graph into their case study. Do you suggesting inlcuding more than one if they are relatively recent or applicable?Venita 12:09, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Thanks, I like it too. My favorite way to upload a curve graph is as a cropped screenshot. I display the graph, use a screen grab program like Capture by George, and crop to a reasonable size and save as .png format. Then give the image a good descriptive name, and use the "Upload file" link on the lower left of the wiki page to bring it into the system. If the image is called "Curve_Rover_20050901.png", then you can refer to it from anywhere on the wiki as ::Thanks. The CBG program looks pretty good. Downloaded the trial version and thought I could use that for this limited purpose . No Way Jose, gotta buy it or my image will have "TRIAL COPY" watermarked on it. Have to think about that expense for this volunteer effort. It costs more than a vial of test strips.Venita 13:28, 10 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::: Capture By George is good, but it's not the only one. There are free screen captures too, like this one. Category Pages I wrote dental procedures tonight, and assigned it a new category (other medical conditions and procedures) and added it to the category treatment. How do I get those category pages to show that article? Venita 01:56, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) :The beauty of Categories is, it's automatic. When you assigned it the category "treatment", that category automatically will contain the article. Just two things to watch: They have to be spelled the same, and you have to be a bit patient. The categories don't update themselves instantly, it can take up to an hour. Steve and Jock 09:16, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Venita -- I forgot -- the category has to exist, too. At some point you must click on a link to the category and enter a little introductory text. Then all the articles in that category will appear. --Steve and Jock 09:22, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::Thanks. I opened the other medical conditions category. Venita 11:56, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC) A good link I don't know where to add I found a link that might be useful, well, everywhere. Canine and Feline Diabetes Mellitus: Nature or Nurture? I didn't know where to add it, as it covers a wide spectrum of topics related to both feline and canine diabetes. Let me know what you think? :I think it's wonderful, and we didn't have an article on causes of diabetes. Now thanks to you, we do!. Is that Sheree? You can sign your name to your discussions by clicking the "signature" button above, or by typing the '~' tilde key 4 times in a row. Steve and Jock 20:19, 12 Nov 2005 (UTC) :: Yes it is me. I'm going to try using that signature like you said. Let's see if it works. --Sheree and Nemesis 20:22, 12 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::: Yes it works! --Steve and Jock 20:25, 12 Nov 2005 (UTC) Dog Articles We hope 02:46, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC) Can work on cataracts/blindness ::Thanks Kathy, please do, in the Blindness article (or in Cataracts and Blindness if you prefer. -steve --canine diet which should include enough fiber. Dogs, like people and unlike cats, benefit control-wise from having enough of it in their diet. Some home-cook for their dogs, balancing carbs, etc., just as a person with diabetes must do. ::Thanks, Kathy -- please include those observations in new articles High-fiber diet, and Raw diet Also can set off for canine testing, popular methods are the lip stick, callous prick and tail stick. ::Those can be in Hometesting blood glucose, which needs a dogs section. Could we include some type of section about not being able to cope financially (IMOM and others)? We have had a few on canine who honestly needed IMOM to be able to afford to properly treat their dogs. Cataract surgery is very $$--some could not afford to do this either without help. ::Absolutely -- maybe an article called Budget or Financial assistance ::: There's also a "frugal feline diabetes" page here.Venita 12:58, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC) Wonder if we could also do something like "Take a breath and try this...", because often, with dogs, there is a minor problem causing the loss of control. Fixes as simple as the insulin is defective (happens quite a bit with Lilly) even though it's new or nearly new (Answer: take lot # and get new vial that has a different one.) ::Article exists and may need additions and more pointers to help find it. It's called Obstacles to regulation. This was going on when Iletin II Lente (pork) was still around (It happened to us.}; have seen it happen most recently with Humulin N, Humulin L and the soon-to be-gone Iletin R and Iletin N (pork). Kathy ::Most of which need new articles too! I put links on 'em so you can easily make them. Thanks for the hard work! Steve and Jock Main page redesign Very nice job on redesigning the top of the fold on the main page. Much friendlier for the uninitiated. Venita 02:49, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Thanks! Feel free to tweak if you see an improvement idea. Steve and Jock Finding registered users Steve. Is there a page somewhere that shows the registered users that has links to their user pages? The only way I'm finding folks now is if they post. Thanks. :That seems to be a distinct missing feature in this version of Mediawiki. I'm asking the experts if there's a way. Steve and Jock ::It appears there's no way today, but the 1.5 upgrade they're attempting shortly should add a "new user log" at which should satisfy this need, according to Angela. Steve and Jock Also, I posted an update notice on the FDMB Health Board this morning. You may want to monitor it in case I can't answer a question. Venita 12:58, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Saw it, will watch, thanks! Steve and Jock Reverting a page How does on do that? Venita 13:31, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC) :*Click on the "history" tab for the page :*Click on the date/time of the version you want to revert to :*Now it shows that version. :*Click the "edit" tab. See a warning that if you edit this version, subsequent changes will be lost. :*Edit it anyway (if you want to) and save it. Include "Revert" and possibly the date/time of the version you reverted to, in your comment. :That's it! Steve and Jock 14:15, 13 Nov 2005 (UTC) Insulins What I'm trying to do now is to go through my fave folders, where all the links have been squirreled. I've just gotten into BNF, whose definitions of the various types of insulins are the "gold standard", world-wide. Want to try getting the BNF definitions of all up today--just did PZI. We will get to the British Vet Formulary--given enough time. We will also get the EMEA and FDA information on the various insulins on wiki. What I have in folders once was used for canine board--over a time span of about 3 years of posting it as needed. Some of this also comes from helping with human diabetics, especially those who need beef and pork insulins. When Lucky was dx'd and didn't fit the norm (95% of all dogs will regulate on some type of r-DNA/GE/GM insulin), I started looking at everything--what it was, how it works and where in the world you could get it. When it became apparent that he could use pork lente insulin only, I went further into suspensions, preservatives, etc., to try to understand the differences. "Going there" helped ID two other board dogs with problems with protamine suspension insulin: one with anaphylactoid reactions to it, another with lesser reactions. The problems of all 3 dogs were solved by switching to various non-protamine suspension/different preservative insulins. This is an area which has been explored by human medicine but apparently very little in veterinary medicine. We "went there" because we had to for Lucky. We often joked about what a shrink would make of us if we took the "first word on your mind" test and answered "insulin" to them all! In time, I hope to have my "world insulin tour" on the wiki. Always thought it might help someone else, but until now, really had no central place to put it. Kathy :The wiki is grateful to have found you! This is a perfect place for such a repository of hard-won knowledge. --Steve and Jock 17:56, 16 Nov 2005 (UTC) Redirect We hope 17:22, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC) Thanks! If you will start a page for the R/neutral categories, I'll be glad to get them off the hands of the NPH page. Now that I can re-direct properly, can clean up a lot of wiki-generated pages with it. Kathy Live Chat Tried this and guess I am not signed up for it--it does not recognize my We hope sig. HELP!! We hope 17:45, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC) Kathy Chat 2 From what I gather, it doesn't like my firewall--can get through with just Kathy, but not keep the connection. We hope 17:53, 17 Nov 2005 (UTC) Kathy THANKS! We hope 14:30, 18 Nov 2005 (UTC) For the "how to" info re: categories. Know I need to explore the full reason I couldn't get on & stay on with IRC as well. We may have some new visitors to wiki. Lucky's vet has been keeping up with what we've been doing here. He believes the wiki would be a good "one stop" source of continuing diabetes education for vets. We both know they are not going to learn how to use Levemir anywhere else. US situation on using human drugs for animals or veterinary drugs not approved for said species falls into "off label" category--pharmas providing off label usage information officially court FDA problems. Human pharma abuse of "off label" tightened this considerably for all. Example would be Vetsulin--approved in US for dogs only but approved many other places for use in cats AND dogs under Caninsulin brand name. Vetsulin can legally be prescribed for felines "off label", but Vetsulin website cannot show any feline prescribing information until approval. By linking wiki to Caninsulin UK pages for feline prescribing information, proper information is displayed at a click. Just a matter of knowing how to dance to the music.... Kathy Winkie Not sure why Winkie is a separate topic. I know s/he is important in a Levemir sense, but for all other pets, data is on a user page or subpage with category links. Venita 09:45, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Short answer: (edited) Chuck's not a user. Long answer: I'm about to add a whole bunch like this. All the case studies need to be on their own pages so they can be categorized. Maxwell's case and Jock's are ok on subpages because there's a user there, but for cases like Winkie where there's no user to link them to, they need a separate page. Each one will be on a page outside the normal space beginning with "Case:" like Winkie is, and each one will have lots of categories, so they can be looked up together with a single category click. : I've just got permission to copy in each of the respondents to Robin & Peri's Lantus Survey in a similar way, and they'll all look more or less like Winkie's page. Steve and Jock 12:54, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::What about a single topic titled something like "cases, other" or "cases, other feline" where each case has a heading that feeds into the index for the page. Just wondering about opening an article for each cat. But wait, you had that separate category comment, and that's valid. I just don't know that "Case:Winkie" or "Case:Whomever" should have the same standing in the article list as, say, "Obstacles to regulation." Venita 13:01, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC) :::The full article list, as you've mentioned before, is inconvenient to read, and will become less and less useful when there are over 100 articles. But the wiki isn't a list of articles at heart; I'd prefer to concentrate on organizing by categories and searches, which are the wiki's strength. As long as all the cases are categorized together (they are) and start with "Case:" which keeps them in a separate namespace for searching, how they show up in the article list isn't going to matter much. --Steve and Jock 13:07, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC) :::P.S. (edited) OK now I've started the first 30 of these articles -- I hope this grows to 3000. As you can see it will look much better on separate pages than on one big one. Each page can be edited by someone who knows the cat and more information added, making this wiki a well-organized repository of linked and grouped case studies! :::Your concern about clogging the list of articles with case studies is understood, and rest assured that once Angela grants us a new namespace for "Case:", this will automatically place these case studies off the main list and onto their own. :::Is this not the coolest thing? Steve and Jock 21:28, 19 Nov 2005 (UTC) Glucose Toxcicity Just read this article and I'm not sure what to make of it vis-a-vis my own situation. You may not be aware but I have broken GT with Max not by the methods described in this article but by taking his dry (although low carb) food away. So, hummm, there's a connection (and needs to be links) between GT and obstacles to regulation that I'm not presently seeing in, and don't know how to go about putting into, the GT article. What I'm trying to say with all this bantering as I sit her with a head cold, up all night, and deathly tired, is that GT seems (to me) to be a condition that can also be "broken" by more conventional and accepted regulation methods, not just the "risky" high dose/fast acting insulin methods you cite. However, even the more conventional diet change can bring risks: I had to chase Max's dose down from 3.2 to 1.4 in a matter of days and came close to too low one time. Venita 10:27, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) :We're all pretty new to the Glucose Toxicity cycle and how to break it. Those who know aren't talking much. If you can find (or write from experience!) any more methods, risky or not, of breaking that glass floor, please do put them into the article. None of the articles I write is intended to be the definitive end-all discussion, just a beginning that I hope more experienced heads will correct and expand. :Unfortunately for historical reasons many of the more experienced FDMB heads just don't like me, and so they won't contribute if I ask for help. If you're still in their good graces, maybe you can get some info from them... Steve and Jock 12:34, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) Case Studies I see the Intervet article refers to a web page on a diabtic dog, Molly, who has her own web page. A possibility for your case studies? Venita 16:14, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) :You bet! I'm also writing a little web form now that will let all our message board friends enter their case studies semi-automatically. (I'll still need to copy them into the wiki, but I'll make that job as easy as possible...) Steve and Jock 16:50, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) Mixed insulins redirect Maybe it's a work in progress, but when I went to Humulin 50/50 (and some others), I was redirected to a topic Mixed insulins, that was set up to redirect to a category, but it didn't automatically go there. Just a glitch I thought I would let you know about. Venita 21:10, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Yep, insulin categories are under construction again, thanks to lots of new info coming from Kathy. I'm letting her handle it for now, she has a lot to add and I don't want to mess it up. Later I may help wikify it a bit. Steve and Jock To You Both re: Insulins We hope 21:52, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) I am often guilty of simply sitting here, "lost" in the world of them, trying to make what's in my head go through my fingers and into wiki. Got so into that and the tying of "loose ends", I forgot to leave a note about it. If these are not the redirects you wanted, please do change them--just wanted them to go somewhere other than the blank page if someone was trying to access info. Hope to get a start on diluents, orals and something on steroids and diabetes (transitional and traditional) also. They may only be starts, but better that than the blank page, right? Will leave it up to both of you to decide if you want a category for importing insulins--I have CP currently in the Insulins category and that's all. Kathy :Kathy, would it make sense to have a category for CP Pharma same as we do for Novo insulins and Lilly insulins? I created one for you... Same with other manufacturers that have a line we're interested in more than one of. :--Steve and Jock 23:56, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) Injecting, etc, insulin Really hate that article's title (I made it up so I can say that). Also think the rolling piece should be on the same page. I can take care of putting them all together and redirecting them, put what do you think might be the best short article title for putting all those things together? "Insulin use," Insulin care," "Using insulin," Caring for insulin," "How to use insulin"? Help me out here, they just keep getting longer! Venita 22:32, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) : What I'd like to do is separate them all, or mostly. Yeah, they're short now, but at least they're focused and may get longer later. So: :* Diluting and Combining Insulins (this really is one topic, you can't separate them. Bob's article (or some pieces of it) is the best guide I've seen.) :* Injecting Insulin (quite a different thing I think) :* Rolling Insulin (redirects from Mixing/Agitating/Resuspending/Stirring Insulin) (different) :* Pointers to these as appropriate from syringe and insulin pen : I think it's cleaner this way --Steve and Jock 23:53, 20 Nov 2005 (UTC) :::I'll take care of it, using your direction. Do you never sleep? Venita 00:17, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::::Thanks, sweetie. I'm going to bed now, it's 1:30 am. The question is if I'll wake up! Steve and Jock :::::So how do I get rid of the page Injecting%2C_diluting%2C_and_mixing_insulin. Nothing else points to it, and I can't redirect it to the now 2 separate articles. If you remove it, fine, but let me know how it's done. Also you said "Rolling Insulin (redirects from Mixing/Agitating/Resuspending/Stirring Insulin)." Does that mean you want those 4 pages set up and redirected? Thanks. Venita 14:16, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::::::I could delete it (admin-only button), but I think it's nicer to redirect it to "Diluting and Mixing insulins" (which itself points to the Injecting article), and remove its categories so it's not easily reached. The only place to find it after this will be the growing "Allpages" list, which will eventually be too big to use comfortably. And as for the other four redirects, yes please! ::::::Another way which would be better in future similar cases, is to "move" (change the name of) the article to one of its new subpages. (Choose the one with the most surviving text). This accomplishes the redirect automatically, and also keeps the page history. The way we're doing it now will keep the page history, but in an orphan page so it will never be found. :( Not a big deal but something to do better next time we think of it. Do you have a "Move" tag at at the top of each page? ::::::--Steve and Jock 14:42, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) :::::::Sorry. I didn't know the power of "move." I created the 4 redirects, and added categories to those pages, thinking those article names would show on the category listing in case someone was "searching" using the category pages, but the redirected article names don't show up in their categories. What's up with that? Venita ::::::::I didn't mean to chide -- I really wasn't sure if "move" was available to you. Thanks for the redirects. As I just confirmed while fiddling with all the insulin categories, a redirect page has no categories, too bad. If it's important to fill the category list, (as with the insulins), we can make small articles that are essentially redirects with categories. But in this case I think the redirects are just useful if someone searches or links to an equivalent name. Steve and Jock GuestBook Might I suggest that once you get the case study input form up and running, we do away with the guestbook and direct people instead to the CS form. The only thing that we would be missing are the fields for what people think of the site, but that can be handled by offering them a specific link to me or you for those comments. We might have to contact those folks that have signed the guestbook but who aren't in the case studies to resubmit more detailed info. This guestbook just is not working out. Hardly anyone is signing it; I think the technology for completing it is too overwhelming to the wiki-uninitiated. Venita 16:02, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) :Great idea! Steve and Jock Categories No problem--will change them as they apply; sometimes I'm a bit hesitant about some stuff because I don't want to screw it up! We hope 17:57, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) Kathy :You're doing great, and you know much more about the categories than I do, so please go right ahead. I fixed most of the confusing bits today, so your categories should make sense now for the most part! Thanks for your amazing work! Steve and Jock 19:31, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) FINALLY!! We hope Am getting wiki to do what I wanted--with the categories. My "dream" is to have someone be able to access the insulins and know within a short time, what equals what on either side of the Atlantic! Kathy Insulins Seem to be almost over (so are my hands....)Will see what may be undone later. We hope 22:32, 21 Nov 2005 (UTC) Kathy Insulin Templates We hope 18:54, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC) This sounds GREAT!! Would also like to get strength in there because some are branded with the same name (Actrapid, for example), but are available under that name in both U100 and U40 strengths. In most places there's only 1 strength sold, but in some, both are offered. Think Novo's human R is known under this name in most of the world--but sold in both U100 and U40 strengths. We can also note the recent "Actrapid" flap in the UK where Novo will no longer be offering it in pen form--vials only. (A not very subtle "nudge" to get them off the no-longer patented stuff and onto NovoRapid which is.) BTW--was told there's nothing like what we've done so far re: insulin info--not even for people. Guess we will be added to more human sites as a link. Kathy Two things: Intermediate-acting article redirect and namespace for insulins First, I have no idea what's wrong so no idea how to fix it. I went to the all articles page and clicked on intermediate-acting. It "redirected" me to the Category:Intermediate-acting, but I can't see the full category page. That is, all I am seeing is the lead-in part, not the listing of the insulins in the category. I know that listing is there because when I go in through the category page, I see them. I don't want to screw something up by trying to figure out how to fix this. Second, I don't know if this is doable or desirable for any reason, but there are SO MANY insulin articles. I know because of concern about eventual volume, you set up the cases as it's own "namespace," whatever that is. Would that also be a good idea for all these insulin articles? Venita 13:27, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC) :I've found that the way the wiki works, if you redirect to a category page (instead of going there directly), the category listing is not shown. (I'm not sure if that's a bug or a feature, but I intend to work around it anyway.) The way to fix it is to not redirect to categories. If you want a link to lead to a category and show the listing, you have to explicitly name the category in the link, e.g. intermediate-acting. :So that's the workaround and I've used it frequently recently, hope you will too. (Yes I'm responsible for the problem itself in many cases, when I was redirecting to categories too. Apologies.) Where it's useful to have an article separate from the category, we've done that too. :As for making a new space for insulins, no, I don't think that's a good idea (though I considered it too.) A new space means searching won't find things unless you name the space first, so a search for "Lantus" wouldn't find anything, you would have to write "Insulin:Lantus" instead. Ugly. I think you'll just have to get used to the article listing being large, and using another entry point to the wiki, as I've suggested before would happen shortly. This wiki, with or without insulins, will continue growing. I recommend the list for developers, and the Begin Here page for readers, and links or searches for researchers. :But on this topic, I think the wiki is now large enough to have a friendly, big-print category-list on the front page instead of the intimidating newsletter-style page we have now. This will also address your issue. See the Harry Potter wiki for a good example: here If you like this idea, do you want to design the new page? Or may I? --Steve and Jock 13:39, 23 Nov 2005 (UTC) My Bug Report Regarding Venita's report today, I made a bug report and got a quick response: > 1. I've found that the way the wiki works, if you redirect to a category > page (instead of going there directly), the category listing is not shown. > (I'm not sure if that's a bug or a feature, but I intend to work around it > anyway.) Redirects to categories don't work in 1.5 either. It's a feature that is being worked on by one of the MediaWiki developers, but it would require quite a change to the current category set-up, so I'm not sure when it will be in. > 2. Newly-created pages sometimes cause pre-existing links to that page to > turn a sickly orange. Clicking on an orange link goes to EDIT that new page > instead of viewing it. You need to create the category before adding the category tag to a page. If you do it the wrong way round, you can fix it by adding ?action=purge to the end of the URL of the article affecting and loading that page. Angela --Steve and Jock Color Coding Insulins We hope 03:45, 30 Nov 2005 (UTC) Let's think about it for a while. One thing we DON'T want to do is mess with the international color coding re: orange=U100 and red=U40. Just don't want to start color-coding and wind up confusing anyone. The light gray is just what we needed with the templates--now the links show up fine! Kathy Tables I have been working off line on the dilution article (again thanks for that incredibly long article to work from . . ..). Anyway, I have a couple of multi-column tables to put in. Can you point me to a good example of another page with such tables so I can see the HTML process for including them? Thx. Venita 19:40, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC) :Hi Venita! :You can do tables two ways -- if you already have working HTML, the easy way is to copy it directly, since the wiki will accept it. :If not, you can use the wiki simplified table syntax. Good examples of simple ones on this page e.g. the declensions table: which comes out :::Thanks Steve. I don't know anything about HTML. I work in Microsoft office. I got one table in, but can't make the other more-complicated one work. I will email it to you in Word and you see what I intend and get the bugger in. Venita 23:20, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)